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Mainframe (System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture) Virtual Appliance

http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/369

A Virtual appliance to enable Mainframe Server Virtualisation on an x86 Platform

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42 Replies
Max12
Contributor
Contributor

Awesome !!

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bluepenguin
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Great, I though about the same thing...

Can we start a new challenge with virtual appliances running on this appliance?

Check out: http://www.conmicro.cx/hercos360/getstarted.html

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joann
Contributor
Contributor

Pretty innovative

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pedropinto
Contributor
Contributor

Cool Stuff!! Nice idea to think of.

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tomgeyer
Contributor
Contributor

Nice idea, one fatal flaw - try getting a license from IBM to run a 370/390/Z OS on this. Hercules has been around for years, but licensing has been the fly in the ointment forever.

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barbaraR
Contributor
Contributor

Id love to get my hands on a licensed OS and then get this thing to really rock.

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barbaraR
Contributor
Contributor

Well, there should be nothing special about geting a liccense. IBM shouldnt even need to know that the license is for hercules.

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bluepenguin
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Licensing will be a problem, IBM will definitely not license the OS for you running on hercules.

You can install OS/360 for free, IBM made it public, but that is really old stuff: http://www.conmicro.cx/hercos360/

Another problem is that IBM tends to send you a system pack bundled on 3088 tapes, and you will need a real mainframe to read these.

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carisane
Contributor
Contributor

well, it looks like a lot of people have been able to install various recent mainframe os's on hercules. I just checked the testimonials on the hercules site. http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/

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felipel
Contributor
Contributor

My two cents ...

What does the appliance do and what unique value does it provide to the intended audience:

A lot. Opens whole new areas to improve server virtualisation and utilisation

Innovative use of virtualization technology:

Yes.

Size of the appliance relative to functionality and performance:

A major part of the size is ubuntu. using a different linux or a pared down ubuntu reduces the size.

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kenwolf
Contributor
Contributor

We just finished installing z/linux on this earlier this week and the results so far are absolutely encouraging. Also, z/linux allows us to install most of our current apps onto this virtualisation layer and if thencouraging results continue, we will probably be moving some of our lower priority apps in production onto this, along the lines of the write-up. Good Work!!

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tomgeyer
Contributor
Contributor

Excellent example - no licensing issues with z/Linux, no heartburn for developers and users of Hercules.

You mention encouraging results. How's performance of the apps? You are running Linux within an instruction emulator (Herc), within a virtual environment. I'm wondering how many CPU cycles actually make it to the application layer.

TG

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saileshkrish
Contributor
Contributor

Thanks everyone for your comments. I do have more ideas to improve this and didnt realise that you could still upload improved entries, to other places, if not this site. Will put out improved versions, hopefully in the next few days or a week.

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Hal_Styli
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Hello I've used Hercules a bit over the last few months and I am interested in why the comments that are in this thread are so positive as I don't see the benefit of using VMware in this scenario being mentioned.

After all, you wouldn't build an appliance to run an editor - even a good one!

Is it simply that people have not tried a normal install of Hercules without VMware?

Given that Hercules is an emulator with its own virtual mainframe disk files (etc) and that it is trivial to install, I can't understand the value of adding VMware - another virtualization layer between the OS and Hercules. Two layers of virtualization strikes me as over the top and unecessary, particularly if you will use IBM's VM o/s under Hercules - which is popular - 3 layers!

Presumably it isn't anything to do with being able to move the Hercules system from one PC to another since this is straightforward - a five minute install and folder copy? \*Much* faster to install Hercules than to install VMware for instance! It can't be performance... so whats the real benefit over simply running Hercules on the OS?

I really can't see it.

Please enlighten me because if there is a clear benefit, I'll use it myself!

Hal

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gene_krozak
Contributor
Contributor

I am a little lost with this one and dont quite understand what its use is. Hal's q seem quite legitimate. Anyone else cate to comment?

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saileshkrish
Contributor
Contributor

Hal, the point of this appliance is to bring server consolidation and allow for better demand amnagement in the mainframe world . The only sticking point is that some apps. may required to be ported to linux/390. While what you are saying is that one may as well run hercules along with other apps, without a VM layer, that dosent really bring about any isolation of applications or virtualisation of infrastructure that may be being used by the other apps. too. Dosent it.

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Hal_Styli
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

Hal, the point of this appliance is to bring server

consolidation and allow for better demand amnagement

in the mainframe world . The only sticking point is

that some apps. may required to be ported to

linux/390. While what you are saying is that one may

as well run hercules along with other apps, without

a VM layer, that dosent really bring about any

isolation of applications or virtualisation of

infrastructure that may be being used by the other

apps. too. Dosent it.

OK, my background on mainframe is z/os (or rather its predecessor MVS/ESA) and z/VM (actually its predecessor VM/ESA). I don't have experience of Linux/390 or z/Linux but I do have x86 linux experience.

Now z/VM would be considered the usual mainframe tool, indeed o/s, for server consolidation and it does the job brilliantly. You would typically have z/vm and z/os guests running under z/vm. IBM certainly thinks z/VM is an excellent way of utilizing Linux/390: z/VM resources for Linux on IBM System z.[/url] I would think if you have licenced z/VM you will use it - it does give excellent isolation and virtualisation, etc.

I'm not saying don't use a virtualization layer, I'm saying use the best one for the job and don't use an extra one that is effectively redundant.

If you haven't got a licence for z/VM, wouldn't it be better to try running multiple instances of Hercules which would also give isolation - the virtualization is already provided by Hercules.

So I still can't see the need or benefit of using vmware but I'll post something in the Hercules forum and let you know what comes back.

Hal.

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t-rexx
Contributor
Contributor

Consider that a virtualized Hercules environment under Windows would be useful for offloading some software development and QA tasks. A person with a notebook computer would no longer be constrained to perform these activities when they were attached to a network. Heck, even people who don't have access to a mainframe at all could perform these tasks. And because of forward-compatibility, pretty much anything which works on an older 370 OS will also work on the newer ones!

How's that for useful?

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Hal_Styli
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

That justifies Hercules which is a no-brainer but says nothing about the need or benefit of a vmware appliance wrapper for Hercules.

Hal.

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