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crim
Contributor
Contributor

ESX 3.5i embedded vs. ESX 3.5i installable?

Hi

We are in the process of buying two new ESX servers, and therefore we would like to try the new free ESX 3.5i version. But now we have to decide which 3.5i version we want to use - the embedded or installable, can someone please tell me what the pro and cons are between those two versions?

Mostly I’m thinking about backup/DRS, if we install the ESX 3.5i installable version on a local mirrored disk, then we can easily restore it to another server or simply remove the faulty disk and replace it.

Is this possible with the USB-key, by mirroring the USB-key to another USB-key or something like that?

Hope someone can help me

Thanks

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16 Replies
nick_couchman
Immortal
Immortal

You MUST order embedded with the server when you purchase it, or at least directly from the server manufacturer. Installable is the downloadable version that you can install to servers that are not capable of having the embedded version embedded :-). So, if the servers you're purchasing have an option for ESXi embedded, you can go ahead and order them that way. If not, you must use the installable version.

Also, if you're using installable, make sure to check the ESX HCL to make sure that the servers have hardware that will work with ESXi. Note that support for ESX and ESXi can be different, so read carefully.

I'm not sure what you're asking about mirroring, etc. - if you're using ESXi, and you're not using a SAN to store your VM information, then you definitely at least want a mirrored disk setup and probably backups of the VMs, as well. If you're using a SAN you shouldn't have to worry about a mirrored local disk configuration as long as you have a way to re-install ESXi rapidly in the event of a disk failure.

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crim
Contributor
Contributor

Yes.. I understand you... but what if the USB-Key get corrupted, how do I mirror or backup the USB-key and restore it?

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nick_couchman
Immortal
Immortal

That might be a question for your server vendor, or maybe someone else here has the answer...

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crim
Contributor
Contributor

Okay.. but that's way I may consider using a local mirrored disk, and then use the installable version. The VM's will still be on the SAN, but I need to secure the ESX software and I don't know how to do that when it's on a internal USB-key. We are using HP Proliant Servers.

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Jasemccarty
Immortal
Immortal

I'm not sure that you have to have the embedded version to get all that you want out of it.

A colleague bought a Dell 1950 III from the Dell Outlet the other day, specifically for ESXi.

He downloaded the standard freebie ESXi 3.5 Update 2, and upon installation, all the hardware monitoring information is there.

HP may be the only OEM one that requires CIM providers to talk to their hardware...

Jase McCarty

http://www.jasemccarty.com

Co-Author of VMware ESX Essentials in the Virtual Data Center

(ISBN:1420070274) from Auerbach

Jase McCarty - @jasemccarty
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joncellini
Contributor
Contributor

We are going though this exact problem right now (needing to replace/reflash a faulty USB key) so I'll post back once we have a resolution.

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crim
Contributor
Contributor

ok.. thanks... there should be a backup copy of the software/firmware on the USB-key, but that won't help if the USB-key gets corrupted.. so I need (same as you) a method to restore/replace/mirror this USB-key. Else I can't use it in a HA environment.

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joncellini
Contributor
Contributor

so I need (same as you) a method to restore/replace/mirror this USB-key. Else I can't use it in a HA environment.

HP is our OEM and I can confirm they do have a restore CD available.

I had a difficult time tracking down an actual copy of the image - when I inquired I was told the "correct" way to obtain a copy is to open a support call with the VMware support group and request a copy. The actual image I was provided includes a factory default flash of ESXi 3.5.0u2 (build 103909) and works fine. The only thing to watch out for is that it will blow away the embedded serial number on the USB key so its best to write those down.

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RParker
Immortal
Immortal

There is no difference. One is an OEM version from the vendor, the other is a download from VM Ware.

Personally, the 3.5i from VM Ware is easier, since you have to get updates from the Vendor for the OEM (embedded) version.

Other than that, there is no difference. You don't gain anything by putting it on a thumb drive / internal SD drive. Just install it in a local disk, it's like a 200 Meg install.

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joncellini
Contributor
Contributor

You don't gain anything by putting it on a thumb drive / internal SD drive. Just install it in a local disk, it's like a 200 Meg install.

I think it depends on your needs. The elimination of HDDs can be a good thing - we saw a decent savings in power / thermal by eliminating disks in our rack dense systems. In our case this also eliminates our second most common component failure. We haven't had a long enough stretch with SDDs to make a reasonable comparison of how their expected lifespan will compare; however, I would expect it to be favorable.

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jamie_macisaac
Contributor
Contributor

Hi Jase,

Any idea if the hardware monitoring on the Dell PowerEdge 1950 III showed a RAID status? I've got ESXi working fine on an ancient PowerEdge 2550 for test purposes but it won't show the RAID status. This doesn't surprise me as I'd usually need OpenManage installed to find out the status of local storage on that box, and I don't think there's any way to install OpenManage on ESXi.

The PowerEdge1950 III is listed as a supported system (some flavours of it are, anyway) and I wonder if that means it has additional monitoring capabilities, such as the ability to check on the status of disks attached to a supported RAID adapter?

Cheers,

jmi

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Jasemccarty
Immortal
Immortal

Hey Jamie,

Well, keep in mind, this isn't my box, but rather a colleague's box. And it is a 1950 III. I'm pretty sure that 3.5 U2 knows what to look at on supported boxes.

I'm attaching a screenshot of what's it's showing. And given that it is a 2 drive box, it looks like it is showing more than it should.

Jase McCarty

http://www.jasemccarty.com

Co-Author of VMware ESX Essentials in the Virtual Data Center

(ISBN:1420070274) from Auerbach

Jase McCarty - @jasemccarty
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jamie_macisaac
Contributor
Contributor

Hi Jase,

Thanks for the screenshot - it supports my guess that the 'supported servers' (as opposed to servers that happen to include a supported RAID adapter) show extended management information required for production deployment. I'd also guess that the information presented in the screenshot is somehow accessible from the Remote CLI making it possible to check that status of the server though Nagios or similar.

Cheers,

jmi

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jalons
Contributor
Contributor

How often do they add additional support?

I see my Sun X4450s are fully supported under ESX, but not ESXi. To test this I ran a test install and see that the hardware monitoring is much more robust under esx vs esxi.

So I guess the question is, do they release additional hardware support in updates, or is it one of the quirks of ESXi that you just don't get the full blown shebang due to the 'imbedded' nature of the product?

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Elric_Lochner
Contributor
Contributor

I have just installed ESXi on DL-360G5 (daul quad core) and i am able to monitor the hardware on the Virtual Infrastructure client. Hiow i just have to get insight manager working, as i downloaded the version with HP Insight Manager client.

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benny_hauk
Enthusiast
Enthusiast

When it comes to embedded please be aware that there are some glitches still being worked out between VMware and the server manufacturers:

If you are new to ESX/ESXi then I'd go with the installable version especially if you've already got the server and it has mirrored drives already. The only benefit for us in going with embedded is that it's cheaper and uses less power than having mirrored drives. That's it. embedded USB is a less proven technology and a more complex setup and may take just as much time to deploy as the installable (see the posting above for a perfect example of the added complexities and deployment times - getting 2 company's support teams to not point fingers is challenging enough). I'd go with the ESXi version though either way, for sure, because that seems to be the direction VMware wants to go in the future (sans Service Console) and the quicker you get acclimated to that world the better. The fact that you can download and deploy a Remote Command Line VM (which to me just sounds like a service console) makes ESXi a no brainer in my opinion.

Also the idea with the embedded USB is that it's "in the firmware" so you'd expect a failure as likely as you'd expect a failure in the BIOS. Sure, it happens, but vendors don't go to the trouble of having redundant firmware (well, okay I guess some do). Regardless the failure rate isn't like HDD. Still it's not a bad idea to by a spare USB device or 2 and keep them in stock for when/if a physical failure occurs (make sure you preconfigure them for your environment so all you have to do is pop it in, maybe change a hostname and ip address, and you're back in business. And hey, the whole idea with an ESX envionrment in the first place (at least for us) is that any one ESX node can fail and we still have capacity to run all our VMs on n-1 esx nodes until we get the faulty one fixed and back online. You've got redundancy built-in at the server-layer (at least you should).

As for how to fix a faulty USB drive (if the fault is with the software on the flash and not a physical problem): Your vendor shipped the server with a "Recovery CD" or else they made a mistake. Dell does it. HP does it. IBM does it (in fact, IBM ships them in 2 flavors: buggy and not buggy Smiley Wink ).

Seriously though, we're excited about the embedded version despite some hiccups we're experiencing right now. I wasn't brave enough to recommend we go totally HHD-less because I like having "sandbox" space to move things around and our SAN space is too expensive to use it as a sandbox. We ordered our HS21-XM blades each with a single HDD with the understanding that anything stored on them is junk/expendable/etc. I want to say we could have done mirrored drives but would have had to give up something else in the blade (perhaps we couldn't have had 32GB of RAM in each or something). Anyway, we decided everything that mattered was on the SAN so mirrored didn't matter. HDD's in IBM blades aren't hotswappable anyway, so even if you have mirror drives and one goes bad, at some point you have to power it down just to replace the bad drive so mirrored doesn't buy you true HA in an ESX/IBM blade environment. ESX Vmotion and HA more than makes up for that tradeoff though.

Benny Hauk Systems Admin, VCP3/VCP4 LifeWay Chrstian Resources
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